I don't think that he is really changed through this realization, he only realizes that immortality is not possible for him. The only result on his personality might be that he would be more fearful of life.
I think he has realized he will never earn immortality, but he has learned a life lesson and continue to live his life to the fullest even though he can not be immortal.
I don't think that he will change at all. After he was denied immortaltiy his next move was to search for the plant that would grant him youth again. I don't think he is ever going to stop searching for some way to prolong his life. I think his fear of death is going to chage his lifestyle in a negative way because all he will be searching for is some sort of way to keep his life going
I think that he won't really will accomplish anymore, and that he wasn't ready for immortality. His lifestyle very well could change, maybe he will have more respect for others in life.
I think that it wouldn't change his lifestyle because it doesn't seem like he learned anything from Utnapishtim's story. I think he is just upset that he didn't get what he wanted. I think that he is going to spend the rest of his life trying to escape death rather than enjoying the rest of his life.
Gilgamesh will only find comfort with the past, with the familiar, as he no longer can lean on Enkidu, and so will rely on the strength of the walls he built and his own ruling style, since there is no escape from death or even a chance of deliverance, or salvation
I think that he is pretty set in his ways. I think that he might develop a new respect for his life but that he will continue to treat people in the same manner.
I believe that Gilgamesh will at first maybe change but then go back to the way he was. People tend to be that way. They have a life changing experience and then end up going back and making the same mistake. Thats humanity for you. I'm not saying that everyone is like that, but most people end up making the same mistakes or go back to the way they were.
I definately agree with Ryan's fate comment. For someone that was so close to immortality, someone obviously kept hime from it. I feel that someone was a little thing called fate.
I think it would be nice if he realized how he was being, but i do think he will stay selfsh. It takes some poepl a while to realized how they are acting. you can tell them as many times as you want, but it takes time.
I think that Gilgamesh will go back to his old ways because he has nothing to keep him going. He lost Enkidu and was denied immortality. That was everything he wanted and relied on and in the end, it was all gone.
I think that the death of Enkidu and being denied immortality will humble him but also stir up a sense of paranoia in him. Death --of a loved on and the imminence of your own death-- changed people in many ways.
Few heroes have been able to gain immortality, but like Jeff said he was obsessed with the idea of it. I don't think it's one of those things you can just gain nor is it something you can have so easily. With him being 2/3 god he has the selfish part of a human.
I think the one thing that changed him was the death of Enkidu, and after that altered who he was and his goals and ambitions it will take something even bigger to change him again. His mourning changed him as a person and made him too highly ambitious and want things that aren’t meant for humans to understand.
Jake- I think it became evident that Gilgamesh was afraid and that even though he was brave and courageous a lot of the time he had a lot of fear inside of him.
I think the experience he had where he was denied immortality was more influential on his life than Enkidu. From my view it seemed like the biggest thing he drew from Enkidu was not wanting to die, and from this experience I think that he might become more humble and think of himself as more of an equal in society and hopefully change his selfish ways.
The gods might also have been annoyed at Gilgamesh's arrogance and disdain for the laws of men. Because of this, they may have chosen to deny Gilgamesh immortality as a way of teaching him a lesson.
It's not surprising that Gilgamesh fell asleep. The gods, from the Mesopotamian point of view seem to be far more human than the Hindu gods, in that they are not perfect or flawless by any stretch of the imagination. By referring to Gilgamesh as 2/3rds a god, the Mesopotamians were likely just complimenting his physical strength and political power. In contrast to the gods, all that he lacks is immortality, the final third.
Meghan- I would say no that it didn't chnage his life. The only thing he has done since Enkidu died was fear death, and try to search for a way to not suffer the same fate as Enkidu. Other than that I don't think that he shows any indication of changed ways
I agree with Maddy, it seems to me like even though he was 2/3 god th e1/3 of him that was human embodied all of the bad traits that humans possess which could easily be why he was not granted mmortality.
I agree with Nancy. Death sometimes can change people in ways that nothing else can. It scares people into changing their ways. So Gilgamesh in fact could change due to losing Enkidu.
Was the suffering and grieving Gilgamesh experienced after Enkidu's death a factor in his denial of immortality? If he couldn't handle one person's death, how could he stand to be immortal and experience the deaths of all humans?
Patrick: I don't think this will cause him to go back to his old ways. I think he'll just lose a lot of his motivation and he won't do much anymore, probably just sit around and play COD
Megan- Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh realize that he didn't want to die and made him want to search for immortality. I don't think that Enkidu's death encouraged him to change his personality, morals, or values.
Meagan I think that at different times Enkidu either inspired, or totally demoralized Gilgamesh.Overall however, It inspired him to do many of the things found in the end of the book. Such as finding immortality,or conducting Enkidu's funeral.
Josh i dont agree at all! he will probably travel the world and live his dream. He might have a short period of no motivation and COD playing, but after he will live his life!
I think that Gilgamesh becomes more selfish with Enkidu's death he feels like he has to be the best in everything, and his strive for immortality fits into that.
Gilgamesh is more of indecisive person you can see this with Enkidu. Gilgamesh was influenced way too quickly with Enkidu's death. This made him wanting immortality, but he still is human. That also ties into why he might be indecisive.
I think that Gilgamesh is very easily influenced by outside sources. Though he is very stubborn he is never really set on what he thinks. He comes up with ideas that he does not feel strongly about yet he plays it off like he is passionate about everything he says and does. When something else is presented to him he is quick to change his mind but only when he can take credit for the idea.
I think he is almost the opposite. He is too set in his decisions, and they ultimately lead to his downfall. His stubbornness about killing Humbabba despite Enkidu's advice to the contrary, and his determination to seek out Uta-napishti and find immortality show that he is too set in his ways to listen to reason.
During Gilgamesh's quest for immortality, his decisions aren't as important as the fact that he never achieved it. This story is a sober warning to the Mesopotamian people that no human, even one as great as Gilgamesh, can attain immortality.
I think that Gilgamesh is changed in his views a lot because he wants to now search for immortality. He decides really closely after Enkidu dies that he will do no matter what it takes to reach eternal life.
Cj I disagree, I think that Gilgamesh's tragic flaw is his need to be in control, so ultimately I think he will continue to fall from power as he trys to seek it.
I agree with Maddy that Gilgamesh is indecisive and Enkidu's death only spurs on his ways of being indecisive and confused. But again that is human and he is 1/3 human.
I agree with Louise he is easly swayed by others opinions and ideas and doesnt seem very uniqe in himself. where enkidu was very much his own individual
Gilgamesh's quest for immortality relates to modern times in a way because people are always trying to take medicines or live a certain way to live longer, but in the end we are all just dust in the wind.
Enkidu influenced Gilgamesh all the time that they were together, so yes he is easily swayed. Gilgamesh himself chose to kill the monster, but really it was his big head that made him choose that. He has a big head because everyone makes him feel like his god-self is the most important part of him. To answer Cameron's question-Yes he is easily swayed.
I would say that possibly some parents try to do the whole turning back the clock thing, going "back to their younger years". Where parents use their children as their outlet to go back to the past. This is apparent when parents force or push their children to do a certain activity that they might have not done in high school or did, and now want to relive that atmosphere/moment through their kid. I think this is a modern day example related to the quest for immortality or becoming youthful again.
In response to Jordan's question in the inner circle, his quest for immortality could be mildly related our nation's desire for weight loss. It is not a perfect comparison - people are often successful in losing weight - but many people go through extreme means to lose weight, like Gilgamesh went through extreme means to find eternal life, and often, as was the case for Gilgamesh, they ultimately don't achieve their goal.
Yeah Amanda H that is a good point maybe everyone no matter what generation is looking for the same thing just in different ways. It reflecs on how self centered we are and how that idea hasnt changed over thousands of years.
I think that the quest for immortality relates to modern American culture in that it seems that Americans are always searching for something to make their life better. People get the idea that if they just have one more thing their life will be perfect but instead the fail to look at the rest of their life in attempt to find something they already have that could create that feeling of perfection.
I agree with tgehring I think that the overall moral of this story is that in the end no matter how powerful or god-like you are, in the end you are mortal, and though you may be able to stall death you cannot prevent it.
I can agree with what is said in the inner group, this book might relate to the middle east culture, just how woman may be portrait. The roots of the norms of society may have been effecting their society with literature. Although all of this speak of women rights. We also have to consider how the culture might socially accept these and we might see it as strange. We have to be open minded to all cultures, but definitely some evidence in modern day from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
I think that G is driven and focused on one thing and it is hard for him to see the effects of any other part of his journey that he did not intend for.
Alyssa, I think that may have just been a symbolic number or set of numbers for the ancient Mesopotamian people. Similarly, in the Bible, the number 40 is used quite often (40 days and 40 nights, etc.), and it generally just implies a very long time, even if it does not mean the literal amount of time. Perhaps their weeks were based around 6 days and 7 nights, and because of their shorter life spans, this was representative of a very long time for them
That is a good point cameron. that strooy had alot to do with past and where G came from but he showed no emotion at all and didnt really seem to even care.
Since G was driven by grief over Enkidu's death, he probably focused on his personal gain and immortality more than the value of his interactions with U
Logan I agree with you. I think the moral of the story deals with death and how it is inevitable. That death should not be feared but embraced. Which is exactly opposite of what G is doing.
I think the strongest part of G is his human qualities. His grief and emotions he feels from becoming close to Enkidu changes him so much. His more godlike qualities are his downfall; his inability to accept defeat drives him to become obsessive in the end.
I think that due to his stubbornness, he had one goal, and due to the fact that he did not complete it, he saw it only as a failure. It is a great human trait to find the values and lessons in all things around us. That definately would have benifited him in the end.
I think that G's selfishness blinded his ability to take anything away from Utnapishtim's story. He didn't hear what he wanted to hear so he blocked the whole story out.
I think Gilgamesh decided that he would attain immortality, and an everlasting life because of his grieving of Enkidu's death. He didn't want to face death like Enkidu had to, so he wanted another route.
Uta-Napishti provides information only pertinent to himself, how he was chosen by the Gods and now holds a position as a man even greater than Gilgamesh as 2/3s God. There is no lesson to be had, merely humility to be gained.
His gried for Enkidu is so overpowering and such a big part of his life that he cannot focus on anything else but changing what his future will bring so that he doesn't have to go through the pain of death again.
Gilgamesh's attitude on life in general is very 'i'm better than everyone.' so he thinks that his 2/3 god makes him better that everyone and everything, even other gods. No matter who he meets, it won't affect him as a person, it might influence his actions, but not himself and his personality.
With gilgamesh's grieving for Enkidu, he focuses on just one thing without looking at the whole picture. He focuses on himself and the fact that he doesn't want to die instead of the fact that maybe he is destined to die, but he still has something to complete. A deed to carry out. Enkidu was sent to change Gilgamesh's ways and then he died. So perhaps Gilgamesh needs to do something.
I also think a main theme of this book, is that, sometimes the journey is more important than the destination, Gilgamesh may not have gained immortality, but if he takes away from this search what he should have, he should be less egotistical, and treasure life more.
I think that Gilgamesh process of grieving might cause him to be narrow minded. The human side becomes more apparent and this shows that he himself has huge flaws. Going back to the immortality part Gilgamesh he might not know what to do with his god part of himself so his ego was certainly knocked down a peg. I would think that he is afraid of dying and will go to such extremes to find this way of immortality.
I think that it is a little of both. I think some of it is his pride, but mainly it's his fear of death that drives him to immortality. He has always been sort of a hero and now there is nothing he can do.
I have always thought Gilgamesh wasn't the strongest character so I'm not surprised how he reacts when he doesnt get immortality. He fears death and is indecisive and proud that, that is why he searches and feels the need to get immortality. And like the inner circle said the dreams he had about death are a big part of it also, but thats fear. Dreams are based of your feelings and emotions, so I think Gilgamesh is a weak character overall.
I think his quest for immortality is unsuccessful because he doesn’t understand what it is. If he was a great leader he would be remembered for many years. Even if he wasn’t physically there people always remember and celebrate great people not always Godly ones. Like in the end when Enkidu tells him that you need people to mourn you to live forever, he hasn’t given anyone a reason to mourn him when he does die unlike Enkidu did.
Gilgamesh lost what he loved the most, and is going through acute agony over Enkidu, and so realizes that through death, he will lose everything, including what he loves most, and cannot tolerate such a result again.
In a lot of situations Gilgamesh seemed hesitant in his decisions before the whole death thing. I think that this is sparked by fear. Where he is hesitant to kill Humbaba, or the contemplating of death after Enkidu dies.
In response to Moritz's question to the inner circle, I think he fears death, and what the afterlife would hold for him. The Mesopotamian afterlife was a hellish place, where everybody went, regardless of class or position in life. Even the kindest and most generous people in life were doomed to suffer after death, and he probably fears what awaits him, a selfish, tyrannical, and cruel man.
Meaghanne,I also agree that Tyler's comment was very powerful. Also I think Gilgamesh is very power hungry. I feel that people who are too power hungry never accomplish what they want. They always will want more power. It never turns out good for those kind of people. I feel like Gilgamesh can easily be compared to Voldemort.
I think in modern times that we aren't searching for immoratltiy, but that we are searching for ways to stay youthful longer. We try make-ups, anti-aging creams, excersice, good diets, plastic surgery, etc. to look and feel youthful longer. I think this correlates to Gilgamesh because I don't think that he only is afraid of dying, but that his fear also resutls from the fear of growing old and incapable, as do we all in modern society
The snake represents that you can't always have what you want. He has a deep selfishness that throughout the book we notice. The one third human and the two third god really conflict with himself. My question is does he know how to be his own man without being influenced so easily?
I agree with Ashley about how Gilgamesh is weak person overall. Throughout the whole book I kept finding instances where I made notes on how Gilgamesh seemed very "non-heroic". It surprised me at first because he is esteemed to be so high up there compared to others.
Ryan, I think that the story would have taught the culture the wrong idea if he had achieved immortality. Since Gilgamesh had such a weak character and was motivated out of grief, his dreams should not have been reached.
I think that it would have been to unreal if he achieved his goal becaus elike Maddy said earlier heroes rarely gain immortality. And i think it was Matt who said this book is teaching the people about how immortality cant be obtained.
I think it affected him positively and negatively. He did learn to keep going and continue to strive for his goals which is strength but it also made him weaker mentally I guess because he didn't know how to change his view and take a lesson away from his experience.
I think that becuase it took such an immense toll on him Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh weaker. It took his focus off of his journey because he was grieving so much and it instilled lots of fear in him.
I don't know that it made him weaker or stronger, but rather more determined. It set his fear of death into motion, and made him focus on his goal of immortality. I think this could be viewed as both a weakening and a strengthening, but I view it as a "middle road" between the two.
The Death of Enkidu did both. If E was stil living G would have been relying on him alot. but without E G would not be able to accomplish his journy with his life.
I think the death of Enkidu made him make it through all the obstacles he faced on his journey, but, I also think it magnified many of his flaws, and in the end made him weaker.
Ryan- If Gilgamesh didn't ever find the plant of immortality than it would have shown that failure is imminent no matter how hard you try. Him succeeding and failing shows that persfectly
Ryan- It is hard to think of how the story might be different. I don't think that the story would be quite as valuable to the middle eastern culture. I think that the fact he is denied immortality teaches a lesson of equality, and had he been granted it I think that lesson would not have been taught at all.
I think Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh weaker. He had a short amount of time with Enkidu, but he didn't really seem to take away anything from Enkidu. He was still stubborn, had cloudy judgment, and egotistical.
The Gods selected Enkidu to die, as he was their pawn to begin with, but also to test Gilgamesh. He was able to accept his kingly role at the end of the novel, so all appears well with the test, and he was able to move on past multiple pitfalls, including the snake, the week's worth of sleep, and Enkidu's death
It seems that all of the epic's we have read and talked about relate to the bible in some way. Is every culture being taught the same thing on purpose?
I think the death of Emkidu made G weaker. It was the only thing that drove his quest for immortality and he refused to accept anything other than that. He was blinded to any lessons he was taught on his journey and if you only want one thing then there are so many more ways to fail, if you want something more broad then you can’t really even fail at all.
The death of Enkidu allowed for G. to see that death is real and he must achieve immortality. And after his quest he fails and realizes he is still 1/3 human
i think Gilgamesh became weaker from the death of Enkidu. He was already fearing death. And having the dreams about dieing and then Enkidu being his rock and or support and then dieing? That had to have an affect on Gilgamesh.
I think Enkidu's death changed Gilgamesh. It's hard to say whether it made him weaker or stronger. It can go both ways. It made him weaker because now he fears death and he didn't gain immortality. He did learn a lesson from Enkidu though and he may now do his best to become a better person knowing that he doesn't have a lot of time on left.
Emily, I think that the death of Enkidu eventually made Gilgamesh stronger, but it took a failed quest to realize this. By realizing that he could not live forever, Gilgamesh also realized that he would have to accept what he had at the moment because he could not keep living lavishly and keep disregarding the future forever.
I agree with what has been said in the inner circle relating to a creation story, such as in the Bible. There is a part where the story is really similar to Noah's ark. Where a dove is sent to see if it will come back and if it does then the flood isn't over yet.
The story of how Uta-napishti gained his immortality from the gods reminded me of Noah's Ark, almost EXACTLY. He was told to build a boat, he filled it with his family, animals, and supplies. The gods then sent forth the Deluge (flood) and he is the only one to survive.
Alyssa- Well said I completley agree. I think that Enkidu really had littlet on effect on Gilgamesh, all he wanted to do after Enkidu died was to not suffer the same fate and live forever. I think that he grieved Enkidu and was sad to see him go but that Enkidu didn't really have any prolific effect on him.
Hayley- I saw that too, and I think the epics resemble each other in order to teach people morals. It seems that in every culture, the big idea morals seem to be the same, one being that pride leads to downfall
Everyone affects everyone else, there are no real boundaries in existence, only the perception that there are, so in this massive web of existence, every action of an "individual" affects every other component. So, even if one has no notable legacies directly attributable to them, there's a small bit of them in multitudes of other achievements
Does Gilgamesh have a legacy then? He is so easily swayed, it seems that more people make an impact on him than the other way around. Is that a great legacy then?
My legacy would be making a difference in the world. Whether a big or a small impact I would try to make a difference. Maybe instead of buying a pair of $1000 you can give that money to a greater cause. Maybe you make some food for your neighbor who's wife is going through chemo for cancer. Whatever it may be it's good to leave an impact in the world.
As humans I do think that we all have the potential to leave a legacy. However I think that many of us lack the drive to leave one whereas others try to hard. Also I think that our perception of legacy is skewed. Many people think of a legacy as something that people worldwide remember and know, however, a legacy is still just as powerful if it only affects people that were close to you.
I do believe that we all have the potential to leave a legacy in life. I would personally want to have a change in at least one persons life. My beliefs would be one of those legacies that I would want to live on and be passed on to my children. There's an expression that says, "outlive your life" and this is basically talking about living a life that people will be impacted long after you are no longer here physically.
My personal lasting legacy I hope would be that I had lived my life to the fuillest, experienced all that I could and traveled the world to learn about other people. I would want people to think of me as an adventurer and also a very caring person as well.
Louise- I agree that most people think of legacies as being a household name. But I think the most powerful and influential legacy one can leave is on the people close to you.
No, Gilgamesh bottomed out with his pipe dream of immortality. With that gone, he can now attempt to detach himself from the elevated figure of Enkidu in his mind. His failure in achieving immortality means he can reunite with Enkidu and provided catharsis.
I think that Gilgamesh's legacy is supposed to be very small and unimportant on purpose. I think it is showing the true nature of a hero. That they are really just the same as everyone else.
I think that everyone leaves a legacy, it may not be something noticeable or flashy, but everyone makes a difference in this world good or bad. I also think that people that make bigger changes in the world are often empowered by people that may go largely unnoticed. In a sense everything we do may make a difference in this world no matter how small.
I think the light and dark motifs could also be revealing the reality of time and the fact that it does not stop, alter, or pause even when someone experiences an epic tragedy like the death of Enkidu. I think time and the fact that it doesn’t stop is something very hard to G to accept. I think it is one of his fears and it fuels his grief even more.
I think Enkidu definitely helped G become a better person. Wasn't Enkidu brought to the earth for the sole reason of helping G out? Or am I making that up? I can't remember.
I thought it was interesting that Gilgamesh faces a trial in which he has to run from the light, and how this could have some inherent symbolism in it.
Do people leave a lasting legacy (such as donating to a charity) to help those people that benefit from the gift, or are people motivated to leave a legacy out of personal gain?
The epic essentially lays bare the human condition, questioning purpose, what one values, and fear of death. It exposed how these are universal themes, no matter how far back one peers into human history.
Yes you do see lots of motifs of light and dark, specifically the journey to reach Utnapishtim, his entire journey is in darkenss, which may be a direct reference to the fact that the journey for immortality is not as good one. In fact their are dark and mysterious images throughout his perilous journey for immortality which represents how wrong immorality is for anyone.
I agree with what Hayley said, When you think negative, negative stuff will happen, when you think positive, more good things will start to happen. And since gilgamesh had so much fear, and was scared and had negatice atitude, he brought it upon himself.
I think the purpose of reading this book from the Middle East is obviously see another side to certain views that we are normally faced with in modern time. We got to see a different point of view about people's views on death, sex, and immortality.
I belive you had us read this Epic to see the relations in our coulter today. to see all the realations between all the important texts. I think it is interesting the conection that this has with the bible. and how the bible connects with texts like the quran and ect.
There is alot to cover on this blog. So many great remarks have been said already. Gilgamesh is weak,physically no, but mentally yes. He is fearful of his life and had shown that before Enkidu even died, so i do not believe that Enkidu had the profound effect that made Gilgamesh want to be immortal. I personally just see Enkidu as a catalyst in Gilgameshes life. What gilgamesh wants gilgamesh gets is what i understood from the beginning of the book. He was power hungry and very much into himself. I personally believe that Enkidu's death helped him realize that he does not have to die. If of course he did become immortal then what would he have to fear? his weakness throughout the book is his fear. But without death lurking behind him he would become more of a tyrant then he already was. Gilgamesh is weak in mind as i said earlier. I believe that Enkidu was Gilgamesh's other half. Together they completed each other they were a perfect creation of strength and wisdom. They were pure just as adam and ever were in the garden of eden. But when Enkidu died it was as if Gilgamesh was ripped apart thus the darker themes and motfis seem to arise. To compare that in todays society, in highschool especially, when a long time couple( 1 year and up) breaks up their world is destroyed. The victim of the break up broods over the loss of the one they cared about. Of course same goes for the one who ended it(most of the time). I remember when my 20 month relationship ended. For a very long time i felt like i lost the better half of me. I did not want to experience that pain ever again. Though i may be a little young to say that i was in love it was the strongest emotion i ever felt for someone and the closest thing that i have had had come to love. Just as Gilgamesh felt when he lost his other half. He was complete with Enkidu to only see him be ripped away. Out of fear gilgamesh wanted to never feel the pain or heartbreak of "the end" again. So what he did was try to become immortal. Of course in the end he fails. This brings me to legacy that we brought up. Gilgamesh left a legacy. He taught us to not run away from our fears. To be headstrong about our challenges. Yes we will have hardships in our lives but none are too great. It is best to feel pain to avoid it. Because you can never avoid pain and Gilgamesh was a fool for trying to avoid by trying to become immortal. The epic of Gilgamesh teaches us to be stronger then he was and to model ourselves with our better half as he did. Of course this is all in my opinion and because i see Gilgamesh as a tragic hero of sorts.
My discussion questions: 1. What does Ea's message to Utpanishtim have in common with Noah's Ark? Differences? 2. Ea helps Utpanishtim. What does that say about his god-to-human relationships? 3. Gilgamesh fails when searching for immortality. Is this epic teaching failure to a culture?
As my response to the discussion above: I agree that G's grief was fueled incredibly by Enkidu's death and the sudden realization that time is inevitable. But his grief was great, and this was not the only factor. I believe his unintentional selfishness played a large role in is remorse. He was doomed from birth to be overly confident because of the way he had been treated by his people. At points in the story he seems that he may be the villian, but you could also argue that he is the largest victim in the story. Starting out being uncontrollably cocky could be the bottom in this cultures eyes. the story of gilgamesh is an epic of his fight back to the top from his selfish ways.
Tyler's Q- The fact that G was denied immortality--will this change his behavior or lifestyle or will he continue on?
ReplyDeleteHe might learn from it, but as far as a life changing experience, he still is a stubborn man, and that will continue on
ReplyDeleteI think he learns that everything has a purpose and they talk about death being the destination and he realizes that he has done his duties.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that he is really changed through this realization, he only realizes that immortality is not possible for him. The only result on his personality might be that he would be more fearful of life.
ReplyDeleteI think he has realized he will never earn immortality, but he has learned a life lesson and continue to live his life to the fullest even though he can not be immortal.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that he will change at all. After he was denied immortaltiy his next move was to search for the plant that would grant him youth again. I don't think he is ever going to stop searching for some way to prolong his life. I think his fear of death is going to chage his lifestyle in a negative way because all he will be searching for is some sort of way to keep his life going
ReplyDeleteHe might try and change his behavior but in the end I feel he will fail at changing his lifestyle and just continue on as he has been.
ReplyDeleteI think that he won't really will accomplish anymore, and that he wasn't ready for immortality. His lifestyle very well could change, maybe he will have more respect for others in life.
ReplyDeleteI think that it wouldn't change his lifestyle because it doesn't seem like he learned anything from Utnapishtim's story. I think he is just upset that he didn't get what he wanted. I think that he is going to spend the rest of his life trying to escape death rather than enjoying the rest of his life.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh will only find comfort with the past, with the familiar, as he no longer can lean on Enkidu, and so will rely on the strength of the walls he built and his own ruling style, since there is no escape from death or even a chance of deliverance, or salvation
ReplyDeleteI think that he is pretty set in his ways. I think that he might develop a new respect for his life but that he will continue to treat people in the same manner.
ReplyDeleteLogan's Q-- Why did G. fall asleep when he was trying to gain immortality, especially because he is 2/3 god?
ReplyDeleteHe'll probably not think so highly of himself because he'll think more like his human self, not god self.
ReplyDeleteI think this will probably make him more ambitious and want to try and succeed more now that he has experienced failure.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Gilgamesh will at first maybe change but then go back to the way he was. People tend to be that way. They have a life changing experience and then end up going back and making the same mistake. Thats humanity for you. I'm not saying that everyone is like that, but most people end up making the same mistakes or go back to the way they were.
ReplyDeleteI definately agree with Ryan's fate comment. For someone that was so close to immortality, someone obviously kept hime from it. I feel that someone was a little thing called fate.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be nice if he realized how he was being, but i do think he will stay selfsh. It takes some poepl a while to realized how they are acting. you can tell them as many times as you want, but it takes time.
ReplyDeleteI think he will change, not only from being denied immortality but he also learned from Enkidu and after Enkidu, that is when he really changed.
ReplyDeleteHe realizes even though he is 2/3 god he is still 1/3 human so this makes him see that he will not overcome sleep let alone immortality.
ReplyDeleteWhat insecurities became evident in Gilgamesh due to his quest?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Logan, I was kind of confused by the fact that Gilgamesh is 2/3 god, but couldn't gain immortality.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh will go back to his old ways because he has nothing to keep him going. He lost Enkidu and was denied immortality. That was everything he wanted and relied on and in the end, it was all gone.
ReplyDeleteI think that the death of Enkidu and being denied immortality will humble him but also stir up a sense of paranoia in him. Death --of a loved on and the imminence of your own death-- changed people in many ways.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Brett and Ryan about fate. Just like Ramayana being about Karma, The Epic of Gilgamesh is about fate.
ReplyDeleteFew heroes have been able to gain immortality, but like Jeff said he was obsessed with the idea of it. I don't think it's one of those things you can just gain nor is it something you can have so easily. With him being 2/3 god he has the selfish part of a human.
ReplyDeleteTo Logan's question-Sleep is a very human thing and even though he's only 1/3 human, he still is a man. Sleep is part of that third and part of G.
ReplyDeleteI think the one thing that changed him was the death of Enkidu, and after that altered who he was and his goals and ambitions it will take something even bigger to change him again. His mourning changed him as a person and made him too highly ambitious and want things that aren’t meant for humans to understand.
ReplyDeleteJake- I think it became evident that Gilgamesh was afraid and that even though he was brave and courageous a lot of the time he had a lot of fear inside of him.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Enkidu's death inspired or changed Gilgamesh's life? How and why?
ReplyDeleteI think the experience he had where he was denied immortality was more influential on his life than Enkidu. From my view it seemed like the biggest thing he drew from Enkidu was not wanting to die, and from this experience I think that he might become more humble and think of himself as more of an equal in society and hopefully change his selfish ways.
ReplyDeleteThe gods might also have been annoyed at Gilgamesh's arrogance and disdain for the laws of men. Because of this, they may have chosen to deny Gilgamesh immortality as a way of teaching him a lesson.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Logan's question:
ReplyDeleteIt's not surprising that Gilgamesh fell asleep. The gods, from the Mesopotamian point of view seem to be far more human than the Hindu gods, in that they are not perfect or flawless by any stretch of the imagination. By referring to Gilgamesh as 2/3rds a god, the Mesopotamians were likely just complimenting his physical strength and political power. In contrast to the gods, all that he lacks is immortality, the final third.
Meghan- I would say no that it didn't chnage his life. The only thing he has done since Enkidu died was fear death, and try to search for a way to not suffer the same fate as Enkidu. Other than that I don't think that he shows any indication of changed ways
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maddy, it seems to me like even though he was 2/3 god th e1/3 of him that was human embodied all of the bad traits that humans possess which could easily be why he was not granted mmortality.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nancy. Death sometimes can change people in ways that nothing else can. It scares people into changing their ways. So Gilgamesh in fact could change due to losing Enkidu.
ReplyDeleteWas the suffering and grieving Gilgamesh experienced after Enkidu's death a factor in his denial of immortality? If he couldn't handle one person's death, how could he stand to be immortal and experience the deaths of all humans?
ReplyDeletePatrick: I don't think this will cause him to go back to his old ways. I think he'll just lose a lot of his motivation and he won't do much anymore, probably just sit around and play COD
ReplyDeleteMegan- Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh realize that he didn't want to die and made him want to search for immortality. I don't think that Enkidu's death encouraged him to change his personality, morals, or values.
ReplyDeleteCameron's Q-- during his quest for immortality is G. swayed too easily in his decisions?
ReplyDeleteExactly Josh, that is what I was trying to say, I just worded it wrong. Thank you for enlightening me.
ReplyDeleteMeagan
ReplyDeleteI think that at different times Enkidu either inspired, or totally demoralized Gilgamesh.Overall however, It inspired him to do many of the things found in the end of the book. Such as finding immortality,or conducting Enkidu's funeral.
Josh i dont agree at all! he will probably travel the world and live his dream. He might have a short period of no motivation and COD playing, but after he will live his life!
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh becomes more selfish with Enkidu's death he feels like he has to be the best in everything, and his strive for immortality fits into that.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh is more of indecisive person you can see this with Enkidu. Gilgamesh was influenced way too quickly with Enkidu's death. This made him wanting immortality, but he still is human. That also ties into why he might be indecisive.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh is very easily influenced by outside sources. Though he is very stubborn he is never really set on what he thinks. He comes up with ideas that he does not feel strongly about yet he plays it off like he is passionate about everything he says and does. When something else is presented to him he is quick to change his mind but only when he can take credit for the idea.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh was not so much swayed, but his judgment was clouded by his human nature and ignorance.
ReplyDeleteI think he is almost the opposite. He is too set in his decisions, and they ultimately lead to his downfall. His stubbornness about killing Humbabba despite Enkidu's advice to the contrary, and his determination to seek out Uta-napishti and find immortality show that he is too set in his ways to listen to reason.
ReplyDeleteDuring Gilgamesh's quest for immortality, his decisions aren't as important as the fact that he never achieved it. This story is a sober warning to the Mesopotamian people that no human, even one as great as Gilgamesh, can attain immortality.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh is changed in his views a lot because he wants to now search for immortality. He decides really closely after Enkidu dies that he will do no matter what it takes to reach eternal life.
ReplyDeleteCJ, you might be right. But I think he'll just start doing risky activities to enjoy himself and lose his fear of dying.
ReplyDeleteCj I disagree, I think that Gilgamesh's tragic flaw is his need to be in control, so ultimately I think he will continue to fall from power as he trys to seek it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maddy that Gilgamesh is indecisive and Enkidu's death only spurs on his ways of being indecisive and confused. But again that is human and he is 1/3 human.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh is definitely very selfish so his decisions are normally swayed towards what will help him out in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Louise he is easly swayed by others opinions and ideas and doesnt seem very uniqe in himself. where enkidu was very much his own individual
ReplyDeleteI think that a lot of people these days go to extremes to stay young. They get plastic surgery, go on weird diets, and other procedures.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh's quest for immortality relates to modern times in a way because people are always trying to take medicines or live a certain way to live longer, but in the end we are all just dust in the wind.
ReplyDeleteLogan, you contradict your self, he may fail and fail but he will still try to fulfill his dreams of being in power!
ReplyDeleteCj notice how you say try too fufull his dreams of being in power like his failed attempt at immortality, he will continue to fall.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of six days and seven nights is repeated several times throughout the book. What is the significance of six days and seven nights?
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Paige said. Selfish people like Gilgamesh, only think of themselves and will only help themsleves and wont think of others.
ReplyDeleteEnkidu influenced Gilgamesh all the time that they were together, so yes he is easily swayed. Gilgamesh himself chose to kill the monster, but really it was his big head that made him choose that. He has a big head because everyone makes him feel like his god-self is the most important part of him. To answer Cameron's question-Yes he is easily swayed.
ReplyDeleteI would say that possibly some parents try to do the whole turning back the clock thing, going "back to their younger years". Where parents use their children as their outlet to go back to the past. This is apparent when parents force or push their children to do a certain activity that they might have not done in high school or did, and now want to relive that atmosphere/moment through their kid. I think this is a modern day example related to the quest for immortality or becoming youthful again.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jordan's question in the inner circle, his quest for immortality could be mildly related our nation's desire for weight loss. It is not a perfect comparison - people are often successful in losing weight - but many people go through extreme means to lose weight, like Gilgamesh went through extreme means to find eternal life, and often, as was the case for Gilgamesh, they ultimately don't achieve their goal.
ReplyDeleteYeah Amanda H that is a good point maybe everyone no matter what generation is looking for the same thing just in different ways. It reflecs on how self centered we are and how that idea hasnt changed over thousands of years.
ReplyDeleteMeaghann, that is very true. That's why I feel Gilgamesh won't change his ways. He is too selfish a person/god.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Logan, Gilgamesh is too power hungry and it will cause his downfall.
ReplyDeleteI think that the quest for immortality relates to modern American culture in that it seems that Americans are always searching for something to make their life better. People get the idea that if they just have one more thing their life will be perfect but instead the fail to look at the rest of their life in attempt to find something they already have that could create that feeling of perfection.
ReplyDeleteI agree with tgehring I think that the overall moral of this story is that in the end no matter how powerful or god-like you are, in the end you are mortal, and though you may be able to stall death you cannot prevent it.
ReplyDeleteCameron A's Q--Why doesn't G find any value in meeting U?
ReplyDeleteI can agree with what is said in the inner group, this book might relate to the middle east culture, just how woman may be portrait. The roots of the norms of society may have been effecting their society with literature. Although all of this speak of women rights. We also have to consider how the culture might socially accept these and we might see it as strange. We have to be open minded to all cultures, but definitely some evidence in modern day from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
ReplyDeleteI think that G is driven and focused on one thing and it is hard for him to see the effects of any other part of his journey that he did not intend for.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa, I think that may have just been a symbolic number or set of numbers for the ancient Mesopotamian people. Similarly, in the Bible, the number 40 is used quite often (40 days and 40 nights, etc.), and it generally just implies a very long time, even if it does not mean the literal amount of time. Perhaps their weeks were based around 6 days and 7 nights, and because of their shorter life spans, this was representative of a very long time for them
ReplyDeletePage, you just took the words right out of my mouth.
ReplyDeletetgehring, that was a powerful and true statement. I agree.
That is a good point cameron. that strooy had alot to do with past and where G came from but he showed no emotion at all and didnt really seem to even care.
ReplyDeleteSince G was driven by grief over Enkidu's death, he probably focused on his personal gain and immortality more than the value of his interactions with U
ReplyDeleteLogan I agree with you. I think the moral of the story deals with death and how it is inevitable. That death should not be feared but embraced. Which is exactly opposite of what G is doing.
ReplyDeleteI think the strongest part of G is his human qualities. His grief and emotions he feels from becoming close to Enkidu changes him so much. His more godlike qualities are his downfall; his inability to accept defeat drives him to become obsessive in the end.
ReplyDeleteI think that due to his stubbornness, he had one goal, and due to the fact that he did not complete it, he saw it only as a failure. It is a great human trait to find the values and lessons in all things around us. That definately would have benifited him in the end.
ReplyDeleteI think that G's selfishness blinded his ability to take anything away from Utnapishtim's story. He didn't hear what he wanted to hear so he blocked the whole story out.
ReplyDeleteI think Gilgamesh decided that he would attain immortality, and an everlasting life because of his grieving of Enkidu's death. He didn't want to face death like Enkidu had to, so he wanted another route.
ReplyDeleteUta-Napishti provides information only pertinent to himself, how he was chosen by the Gods and now holds a position as a man even greater than Gilgamesh as 2/3s God. There is no lesson to be had, merely humility to be gained.
ReplyDeleteHis gried for Enkidu is so overpowering and such a big part of his life that he cannot focus on anything else but changing what his future will bring so that he doesn't have to go through the pain of death again.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh's attitude on life in general is very 'i'm better than everyone.' so he thinks that his 2/3 god makes him better that everyone and everything, even other gods. No matter who he meets, it won't affect him as a person, it might influence his actions, but not himself and his personality.
ReplyDeleteBut he is royalty; who tells royalty no!?
ReplyDeleteWith gilgamesh's grieving for Enkidu, he focuses on just one thing without looking at the whole picture. He focuses on himself and the fact that he doesn't want to die instead of the fact that maybe he is destined to die, but he still has something to complete. A deed to carry out. Enkidu was sent to change Gilgamesh's ways and then he died. So perhaps Gilgamesh needs to do something.
ReplyDeleteI also think a main theme of this book, is that, sometimes the journey is more important than the destination, Gilgamesh may not have gained immortality, but if he takes away from this search what he should have, he should be less egotistical, and treasure life more.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh process of grieving might cause him to be narrow minded. The human side becomes more apparent and this shows that he himself has huge flaws. Going back to the immortality part Gilgamesh he might not know what to do with his god part of himself so his ego was certainly knocked down a peg. I would think that he is afraid of dying and will go to such extremes to find this way of immortality.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is a little of both. I think some of it is his pride, but mainly it's his fear of death that drives him to immortality. He has always been sort of a hero and now there is nothing he can do.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought Gilgamesh wasn't the strongest character so I'm not surprised how he reacts when he doesnt get immortality. He fears death and is indecisive and proud that, that is why he searches and feels the need to get immortality. And like the inner circle said the dreams he had about death are a big part of it also, but thats fear. Dreams are based of your feelings and emotions, so I think Gilgamesh is a weak character overall.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh is two-thirds god, why shouldn't he attain immortality. He is also still haunted by Enkidu's death.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh fears death in the fact that he may have to suffer for his past actions perhaps.
ReplyDeleteI think his quest for immortality is unsuccessful because he doesn’t understand what it is. If he was a great leader he would be remembered for many years. Even if he wasn’t physically there people always remember and celebrate great people not always Godly ones. Like in the end when Enkidu tells him that you need people to mourn you to live forever, he hasn’t given anyone a reason to mourn him when he does die unlike Enkidu did.
ReplyDeleteCameron's Q--Symbolism of G being so close to success and then it swiped away?
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh lost what he loved the most, and is going through acute agony over Enkidu, and so realizes that through death, he will lose everything, including what he loves most, and cannot tolerate such a result again.
ReplyDeleteLogan, I like that.
ReplyDeleteIn a lot of situations Gilgamesh seemed hesitant in his decisions before the whole death thing. I think that this is sparked by fear. Where he is hesitant to kill Humbaba, or the contemplating of death after Enkidu dies.
ReplyDeleteHow would the story have been different if G did acctualy accive his goal?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Moritz's question to the inner circle, I think he fears death, and what the afterlife would hold for him. The Mesopotamian afterlife was a hellish place, where everybody went, regardless of class or position in life. Even the kindest and most generous people in life were doomed to suffer after death, and he probably fears what awaits him, a selfish, tyrannical, and cruel man.
ReplyDeleteMeaghanne,I also agree that Tyler's comment was very powerful.
ReplyDeleteAlso I think Gilgamesh is very power hungry. I feel that people who are too power hungry never accomplish what they want. They always will want more power. It never turns out good for those kind of people. I feel like Gilgamesh can easily be compared to Voldemort.
I think in modern times that we aren't searching for immoratltiy, but that we are searching for ways to stay youthful longer. We try make-ups, anti-aging creams, excersice, good diets, plastic surgery, etc. to look and feel youthful longer. I think this correlates to Gilgamesh because I don't think that he only is afraid of dying, but that his fear also resutls from the fear of growing old and incapable, as do we all in modern society
ReplyDeleteit shows that Gilgamesh is still human, even if it is only 1/3.
ReplyDeleteThe snake represents that you can't always have what you want. He has a deep selfishness that throughout the book we notice. The one third human and the two third god really conflict with himself. My question is does he know how to be his own man without being influenced so easily?
ReplyDeleteEmily's Q-- Did the death of Enkidu make G weaker or stronger?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ashley about how Gilgamesh is weak person overall. Throughout the whole book I kept finding instances where I made notes on how Gilgamesh seemed very "non-heroic". It surprised me at first because he is esteemed to be so high up there compared to others.
ReplyDeleteRyan, I think that the story would have taught the culture the wrong idea if he had achieved immortality. Since Gilgamesh had such a weak character and was motivated out of grief, his dreams should not have been reached.
ReplyDeleteI think that it would have been to unreal if he achieved his goal becaus elike Maddy said earlier heroes rarely gain immortality. And i think it was Matt who said this book is teaching the people about how immortality cant be obtained.
ReplyDeleteI think it affected him positively and negatively. He did learn to keep going and continue to strive for his goals which is strength but it also made him weaker mentally I guess because he didn't know how to change his view and take a lesson away from his experience.
ReplyDeleteI think that becuase it took such an immense toll on him Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh weaker. It took his focus off of his journey because he was grieving so much and it instilled lots of fear in him.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that it made him weaker or stronger, but rather more determined. It set his fear of death into motion, and made him focus on his goal of immortality. I think this could be viewed as both a weakening and a strengthening, but I view it as a "middle road" between the two.
ReplyDeleteThe Death of Enkidu did both. If E was stil living G would have been relying on him alot. but without E G would not be able to accomplish his journy with his life.
ReplyDeleteAmanda's Q--How is the epic similar to other creation stories?
ReplyDeleteI think the death of Enkidu made him make it through all the obstacles he faced on his journey, but, I also think it magnified many of his flaws, and in the end made him weaker.
ReplyDeleteI think death in general makes the strongest people fall into despair. It made even someone who is 2/3 god go looking for immortality out of fear.
ReplyDeleteRyan- If Gilgamesh didn't ever find the plant of immortality than it would have shown that failure is imminent no matter how hard you try. Him succeeding and failing shows that persfectly
ReplyDeleteRyan- It is hard to think of how the story might be different. I don't think that the story would be quite as valuable to the middle eastern culture. I think that the fact he is denied immortality teaches a lesson of equality, and had he been granted it I think that lesson would not have been taught at all.
ReplyDeleteI think Enkidu's death made Gilgamesh weaker. He had a short amount of time with Enkidu, but he didn't really seem to take away anything from Enkidu. He was still stubborn, had cloudy judgment, and egotistical.
ReplyDeleteThe Gods selected Enkidu to die, as he was their pawn to begin with, but also to test Gilgamesh. He was able to accept his kingly role at the end of the novel, so all appears well with the test, and he was able to move on past multiple pitfalls, including the snake, the week's worth of sleep, and Enkidu's death
ReplyDeleteIt seems that all of the epic's we have read and talked about relate to the bible in some way. Is every culture being taught the same thing on purpose?
ReplyDeleteI think the death of Emkidu made G weaker. It was the only thing that drove his quest for immortality and he refused to accept anything other than that. He was blinded to any lessons he was taught on his journey and if you only want one thing then there are so many more ways to fail, if you want something more broad then you can’t really even fail at all.
ReplyDeleteThe death of Enkidu allowed for G. to see that death is real and he must achieve immortality. And after his quest he fails and realizes he is still 1/3 human
ReplyDeletei think Gilgamesh became weaker from the death of Enkidu. He was already fearing death. And having the dreams about dieing and then Enkidu being his rock and or support and then dieing? That had to have an affect on Gilgamesh.
ReplyDeleteThe snake reminds me of the Genesis creation story that the snake is the deceiver or thief.
ReplyDeleteI think Enkidu's death changed Gilgamesh. It's hard to say whether it made him weaker or stronger. It can go both ways. It made him weaker because now he fears death and he didn't gain immortality. He did learn a lesson from Enkidu though and he may now do his best to become a better person knowing that he doesn't have a lot of time on left.
ReplyDeleteEmily, I think that the death of Enkidu eventually made Gilgamesh stronger, but it took a failed quest to realize this. By realizing that he could not live forever, Gilgamesh also realized that he would have to accept what he had at the moment because he could not keep living lavishly and keep disregarding the future forever.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what has been said in the inner circle relating to a creation story, such as in the Bible. There is a part where the story is really similar to Noah's ark. Where a dove is sent to see if it will come back and if it does then the flood isn't over yet.
ReplyDeleteThe story of how Uta-napishti gained his immortality from the gods reminded me of Noah's Ark, almost EXACTLY. He was told to build a boat, he filled it with his family, animals, and supplies. The gods then sent forth the Deluge (flood) and he is the only one to survive.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa- Well said I completley agree. I think that Enkidu really had littlet on effect on Gilgamesh, all he wanted to do after Enkidu died was to not suffer the same fate and live forever. I think that he grieved Enkidu and was sad to see him go but that Enkidu didn't really have any prolific effect on him.
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh built the wall for a legacy. It was him coming to peace with the fact that he will die one day and he needs to leave his mark some how
ReplyDeleteHayley- I saw that too, and I think the epics resemble each other in order to teach people morals. It seems that in every culture, the big idea morals seem to be the same, one being that pride leads to downfall
ReplyDeleteThe death of Enkidu weakened Gilgamesh, it let him on his search of Uta-napishti, a search that would ultimately fail.
ReplyDeleteEveryone affects everyone else, there are no real boundaries in existence, only the perception that there are, so in this massive web of existence, every action of an "individual" affects every other component. So, even if one has no notable legacies directly attributable to them, there's a small bit of them in multitudes of other achievements
ReplyDeleteDoes Gilgamesh have a legacy then? He is so easily swayed, it seems that more people make an impact on him than the other way around. Is that a great legacy then?
ReplyDeleteMy legacy would be making a difference in the world. Whether a big or a small impact I would try to make a difference. Maybe instead of buying a pair of $1000 you can give that money to a greater cause. Maybe you make some food for your neighbor who's wife is going through chemo for cancer. Whatever it may be it's good to leave an impact in the world.
ReplyDeleteAs humans I do think that we all have the potential to leave a legacy. However I think that many of us lack the drive to leave one whereas others try to hard. Also I think that our perception of legacy is skewed. Many people think of a legacy as something that people worldwide remember and know, however, a legacy is still just as powerful if it only affects people that were close to you.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that we all have the potential to leave a legacy in life. I would personally want to have a change in at least one persons life. My beliefs would be one of those legacies that I would want to live on and be passed on to my children. There's an expression that says, "outlive your life" and this is basically talking about living a life that people will be impacted long after you are no longer here physically.
ReplyDeleteMy personal lasting legacy I hope would be that I had lived my life to the fuillest, experienced all that I could and traveled the world to learn about other people. I would want people to think of me as an adventurer and also a very caring person as well.
ReplyDeleteMaddy's Q-- after Enkidu's death, does anyone else notice the abumdance of light and dark motifs?
ReplyDeleteLouise- I agree that most people think of legacies as being a household name. But I think the most powerful and influential legacy one can leave is on the people close to you.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh was doing this to himself and making this all negative, he couldn't find the light or the good but there was some.
ReplyDeleteNo, Gilgamesh bottomed out with his pipe dream of immortality. With that gone, he can now attempt to detach himself from the elevated figure of Enkidu in his mind. His failure in achieving immortality means he can reunite with Enkidu and provided catharsis.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gilgamesh's legacy is supposed to be very small and unimportant on purpose. I think it is showing the true nature of a hero. That they are really just the same as everyone else.
ReplyDeleteWhy do we want to leave legacies? Is it similar to Gilgamesh in the idea that we are fearful of death, and want some part of us to live on?
ReplyDeleteI think that everyone leaves a legacy, it may not be something noticeable or flashy, but everyone makes a difference in this world good or bad. I also think that people that make bigger changes in the world are often empowered by people that may go largely unnoticed. In a sense everything we do may make a difference in this world no matter how small.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of this book if G doesn't accomplish a lot?
ReplyDeleteI think the light and dark motifs could also be revealing the reality of time and the fact that it does not stop, alter, or pause even when someone experiences an epic tragedy like the death of Enkidu. I think time and the fact that it doesn’t stop is something very hard to G to accept. I think it is one of his fears and it fuels his grief even more.
ReplyDeleteI think Enkidu definitely helped G become a better person. Wasn't Enkidu brought to the earth for the sole reason of helping G out? Or am I making that up? I can't remember.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting that Gilgamesh faces a trial in which he has to run from the light, and how this could have some inherent symbolism in it.
ReplyDeleteDo people leave a lasting legacy (such as donating to a charity) to help those people that benefit from the gift, or are people motivated to leave a legacy out of personal gain?
ReplyDeleteMaddy- I think Gilgamesh's success and failure soon after is about the best light and dark motif around
ReplyDeleteThe epic essentially lays bare the human condition, questioning purpose, what one values, and fear of death. It exposed how these are universal themes, no matter how far back one peers into human history.
ReplyDeleteI think that you had us read this story to help us with the whole destination and journey thing that we are about to embark upon.
ReplyDeleteYes you do see lots of motifs of light and dark, specifically the journey to reach Utnapishtim, his entire journey is in darkenss, which may be a direct reference to the fact that the journey for immortality is not as good one. In fact their are dark and mysterious images throughout his perilous journey for immortality which represents how wrong immorality is for anyone.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Hayley said, When you think negative, negative stuff will happen, when you think positive, more good things will start to happen. And since gilgamesh had so much fear, and was scared and had negatice atitude, he brought it upon himself.
ReplyDelete@Amanda-I think this book shows the culture more than accomphishments of Gilgamesh, I think it's trying to tell us that life is not all about winning.
ReplyDeleteI think the purpose of reading this book from the Middle East is obviously see another side to certain views that we are normally faced with in modern time. We got to see a different point of view about people's views on death, sex, and immortality.
ReplyDeleteI belive you had us read this Epic to see the relations in our coulter today. to see all the realations between all the important texts. I think it is interesting the conection that this has with the bible. and how the bible connects with texts like the quran and ect.
ReplyDeleteThere is alot to cover on this blog. So many great remarks have been said already. Gilgamesh is weak,physically no, but mentally yes. He is fearful of his life and had shown that before Enkidu even died, so i do not believe that Enkidu had the profound effect that made Gilgamesh want to be immortal. I personally just see Enkidu as a catalyst in Gilgameshes life. What gilgamesh wants gilgamesh gets is what i understood from the beginning of the book. He was power hungry and very much into himself. I personally believe that Enkidu's death helped him realize that he does not have to die. If of course he did become immortal then what would he have to fear? his weakness throughout the book is his fear. But without death lurking behind him he would become more of a tyrant then he already was. Gilgamesh is weak in mind as i said earlier. I believe that Enkidu was Gilgamesh's other half. Together they completed each other they were a perfect creation of strength and wisdom. They were pure just as adam and ever were in the garden of eden. But when Enkidu died it was as if Gilgamesh was ripped apart thus the darker themes and motfis seem to arise. To compare that in todays society, in highschool especially, when a long time couple( 1 year and up) breaks up their world is destroyed. The victim of the break up broods over the loss of the one they cared about. Of course same goes for the one who ended it(most of the time). I remember when my 20 month relationship ended. For a very long time i felt like i lost the better half of me. I did not want to experience that pain ever again. Though i may be a little young to say that i was in love it was the strongest emotion i ever felt for someone and the closest thing that i have had had come to love. Just as Gilgamesh felt when he lost his other half. He was complete with Enkidu to only see him be ripped away. Out of fear gilgamesh wanted to never feel the pain or heartbreak of "the end" again. So what he did was try to become immortal. Of course in the end he fails. This brings me to legacy that we brought up. Gilgamesh left a legacy. He taught us to not run away from our fears. To be headstrong about our challenges. Yes we will have hardships in our lives but none are too great. It is best to feel pain to avoid it. Because you can never avoid pain and Gilgamesh was a fool for trying to avoid by trying to become immortal. The epic of Gilgamesh teaches us to be stronger then he was and to model ourselves with our better half as he did. Of course this is all in my opinion and because i see Gilgamesh as a tragic hero of sorts.
ReplyDeleteMy discussion questions:
ReplyDelete1. What does Ea's message to Utpanishtim have in common with Noah's Ark? Differences?
2. Ea helps Utpanishtim. What does that say about his god-to-human relationships?
3. Gilgamesh fails when searching for immortality. Is this epic teaching failure to a culture?
As my response to the discussion above:
I agree that G's grief was fueled incredibly by Enkidu's death and the sudden realization that time is inevitable. But his grief was great, and this was not the only factor. I believe his unintentional selfishness played a large role in is remorse. He was doomed from birth to be overly confident because of the way he had been treated by his people. At points in the story he seems that he may be the villian, but you could also argue that he is the largest victim in the story. Starting out being uncontrollably cocky could be the bottom in this cultures eyes. the story of gilgamesh is an epic of his fight back to the top from his selfish ways.